You say ATC hasn't done investors any favours with their statements?  Eventhough you didn't want to hear that they are shooting for 5M oz, they are being upfront and honest about the project instead of spinning their words.  Honest/realistic management is another reason I am long ATC.  In terms of characters like kaiser, I think of why they are saying certain things as much as what they are saying.  He wants to sell at $5 he says ATC is great, now he wants to get back in and so he says its overvalued.  this guy is just doing the same thing as other "experts" he just isn't as clever/ sneaky as most.