Good thinking as usual 99. The problem seems to be that only folks outside of management and control seem to know what to do about the 'lack of value' problem. I am coming, more and more, to believe that our carboys are deeply involved in the present circumstance and have no intention of changing course.

We have to find ways to stop them: shame them: embarrass them: placard their (our) offices: demonstrate publically in ways and places that they cannot ignore: put facts in front of legal counsel: and if all that fails let's get serious.