bill, here is something for folks to ponder, unlike the 2012 debentures which are "secured" against the cash ORT gets back for the gov't (risk being a) if gov't dissallows below $25M or i suspect then if assets are worth less than make-whole if HPA2 fails) but what is Crede's security on any its' debentures or warrrants should HPA2 fail?? and given that IMO Crede has no more valuable security than us if HPA2 fails why should they hold anything into that event???  right now all they have to do is "manage" the shareprice to enable their liquidation (which i suspect the incentivize some agents to help out with).  but as certain agents (EP for example) need $0.60 i believe we will see $0.60 before the next series and that well Crede manages price to be risk "neutral" for jan 01.. at least that is my working hypothesis