bill, again nice to see i have  "grasshopper" in 1954 over on the PFF, i can image the reception he gets over there... however the grasshopper is stretching to justify Crede's potential trading behavioiur into his almost right somewhat wrong model.. the most effective model is what i have adopted: a) assume Crede will montetize all its economic value potential in ORT b) manage its risk profile in ORT  and not kill the "golden goose " in the interim (ie they need buyers to match their selling) c) assume a price of positive economic value for Crede and various agents of between $0.40 and $0.60 d) assume ORT is desperate for cash (FYI a read of the last Q would reveal even if the owe interest (ie Crede didn't convert fast enough and so was owed inerest payment (as best i can tell)) ORT is still paying in shares vs. cash) e) high volume days are the tell f) Crede i believe is limited to what max 10% share ownership and this IMO dictates the pace of selling... and so i sit waiting for $0.40 to occur of which i am 99% certain will happen